Curse

Zarroc · Jun 16, 2008, 08:34 PM // 20:34

I've read the guide, but i'm still unsure of the best secondary for a MM. Monk seems like the best choice, for things like area heal to heal your minions. Any help is appreciated, i'm trying to make the right choice so I don't have to wait until ascension to change :P.

On a side note, do MM's have a decent role in PvP? The majority of my gameplay will be PvE, but i'm trying to get into PvP as well.

Sindy · Jun 16, 2008, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Monk works just fine. I've found that as MM I use pretty much just my primary, but a little self heal can't hurt.

MM's aren't as useful in PvP, as there are far less corpses and they *generally* don't pose much of a threat for very long. However, Necros can still do great stuff, it will just mean changing your skills/attributes.

Check out PvX wiki if you are interested in a lot of builds for both.

gremlin · Jun 16, 2008, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Pretty much all been said already

I usually go Necro/Monk when I am running MM mainly for the hard res skills.
I only use the monk area heal when I have a bunch of ranged minions and im hiding in the middle.

I swap to Necro/Mesmer when I am running an SS build but I too find little space for secondary skills when I am running my necro in pve and I seldom pvp.

Tyla · Jun 16, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30

/Monk, because Protective Spirit and Aegis are awesome.

[jagged bones][animate bone minions][infuse condition][foul feast][protective spirit][aegis][blood of the master][putrid bile]

Along with some Discord heroes, one using Death Nova to set off minion bombs should be quite nifty.

Cathode_Reborn · Jun 16, 2008, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Monk or Derv.

Both good have selfheals. Monk can help support the team. Don't use Heal Area though - it's outdated and bad now.

farmerfez · Jun 16, 2008, 09:58 PM // 21:58

n/rt with explosive growth and boon of creation

Moloch Vein · Jun 16, 2008, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Another person who thinks that explosive growth @ 0 spawning power is the shit?

Seriously though, /Mo is the best way to go simply because it will give you one ton more worthwhile utility skills than /D for loads of different purposes.

Oh and please don't give the poor bastard hero builds that he can't run with any efficiency... :|

MisterT69 · Jun 16, 2008, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmerfez

n/rt with explosive growth and boon of creation

That only works for Rt/N. If you don't have spawning power and you're a necro, you're best choice is monk. Spawning power is the only reason why a rit MM can outpower a necro MM. So as a necro, monk is a great choice because u can spam protection spells with soul reaping as energy.

Moloch Vein · Jun 16, 2008, 10:28 PM // 22:28

^ Only, a rit MM can't outpower a necro MM.

Sniper22 · Jun 16, 2008, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Honestly, go monk. Use heal area for self/minion heal along with blood of the master. Don't listen to cathode :P. I've been using heal area for like 3 years now so monks dont have to continuously waste energy to heal me back up. If you are using aura of the lich, then bring healing breeze or heal area. I wouldn't recommend prot skills on a minion master because dark bond is all you need for that and monks can prot the rest of the team. I don't recommend derv secondary for mystic regen because you won't be able to bring a res skill which often helps a lot when your team is in trouble.

For pvp, minion masters are good in alliance battles. It may also be possible to make a decent bomber minion build in random arenas, but corpses are usually limited and unreliable.

Stormlord Alex · Jun 16, 2008, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper22

I wouldn't recommend prot skills on a minion master because dark bond is all you need for that and monks can prot the rest of the team.

You've got infinite energy. Protective Spirit is just about the best thing you can spend that energy on.

PS > Dark Bond, because selfish defense is utter shit unless you're a monk.

Prot skills are amazing on MMs, period.

Cathode_Reborn · Jun 16, 2008, 11:45 PM // 23:45

I wouldn't use [skill]Heal Area[/skill] because [skill]Patient Spirit[/skill] outheals it with 2 casts, and it could be used on allies.

Assuming you have melee minions, they'll never be adjacent to you during combat so Heal Area is pretty bad for trying to heal them also. Using it to keep minions alive outside of combat is the most common and stupidest argument I've heard for it. If there's not a single enemy around, you can mash BotM and let your monks heal you. H/H monks will gladly do it. If a human monk refuses to, it's probably one of those lazy HB monks that think they can keep the party alive with Heal Party spam.

If you're using [skill]Aura of the Lich[/skill], you can use [skill]Spirit Light[/skill]

It's a very good heal and AotL will reduce the sac so you don't need to bring a Spirit.

As Alex said, Dark Bond is selfish. Ok so you're all beefed up, but what's it gonna do when you see one of your teammates gettin whooped?

Sniper22 · Jun 17, 2008, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Um, you don't have infinite energy when bone fiend costs 25e. Don't forget you're gonna be healing up your minions too because some of them die quickly in the higher lvl areas. Most areas are easy enough that you wont even need to spend energy protting up the team anyway. I do find prot very effective with BiP though in places like urgoz, cause that's like an infinite energy build right there. 1 energy per cast and +3 energy from that soul reaping enchantment is free energy right there. While some minions will be in melee, I would say half or more should be fiends because they easily out damage bone horrors so heal area is still useful in combat. Outside of combat, monks should be able to regen their energy. If you are constantly healing your minions because they have 10 degen, its kinda annoying for the monks. I also use it on allies in the backline if I'm near them. Spirit light is a good option too though with aotl.

If you are going with bone minions with death nova, then don't even bring heal area or botm. Dwayna's sorrow, foul feast, infuse condition, death nova, etc makes a great combo. I recommend this build for areas with high aoe dmg where you minions would get owned quickly.

Dark bond is selfish, but very useful in alliance battles, we don't need 10 uncontrolled fiends running all over the place. Other than that, its usually a waste of a slot in pve.

The Meth · Jun 17, 2008, 12:07 AM // 00:07

IMO, as far as your attributes are concerned stay within the necro line, bump into curses a bit and bring [Enfeebling Blood]. Reducing 100+ enemy auto attack damage to 30-40 is the shit. Taking that one skill basically means half or more of each mob is useless. Things like [Aegis] are nice and all, but Enfeebling has 100% upkeep, does as good or better in some cases, and will benefit your minions (who are the ones who are supposed to be taking damage in the first place, not your allies). Granted not bringing [Protective Spirit] means you miss out a little, but with Enfeebling Blood the only enemies doing more then 60 damage per attack are ele/rit bosses anyway, those are easily planned for and taken down anyway. The difference between minions fighting enemies with and without weakness is huge, without it MM's have to spam BotM just to keep them alive, with it minions go toe to toe with lvl 28s in HM and you still are using BotM maybe once every 5 seconds.

As for PvP, the only time you see them are in AB's or Fort Aspenwood. They are kind of sluggish in AB's which can present a problem at times, and they need help starting out of course. When you have 10 minions though your group is pretty much unstoppable, but every smart player is going to avoid you unless their group seriously outmatches yours and you only end up killing the retarded nubs who think bum rushing 10 fiends with their assassin is going to win the game. If you are trying to get into serious PvP MMing is not the way, but it will work fine for a few random matches in AB.

Chthon · Jun 17, 2008, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Let's go back to basics here:

1. You should have used search. This thread is repetitive.

2. Don't use the build Tyla posted. It's a Minion Bomber build, not a Minion Master build. For one thing, it's nowhere near as powerful as what you can do with a Master. For another, it's impossible to run unless you're an AI because JB and DN are nearly impossible to target in a timely fashion. Save builds like this for heroes.

3. A true Minion Master spams BotM like crazy. That requires a self-heal. Unless you want to give up your elite for AotL, you have to use your secondary for monk to get Heal Area or derv to get Mystic Regen. Heal Area is generally the more appealing of the two, and a monk secondary offers a better selection of other skills, if you want them, than derv does.

4. Prot Spirit is a good skill in general, but not so great on a MM. If you spec properly, you're only going to have 2 points to dedicate to an off skill like PS. That's going to leave you with a pretty weak 7 sec PS. If you really want to cram a party protection role onto a MM, use EBSoCourage, which works without an attribute investment (although it takes a horrid grind investment instead).

PS can work on a MB, since they have some points to spare. Although, since that became popular in Sabway, I see a lot of idiots insisting that it's a core part of a MB build and that every MB build should have it. Which is totally wrong.

BTW, necros do not have "infinite energy." They never did, and in their nerfed state, they are even further from it. Try spamming PS on a E.Renewal ele to get a picture of just how far from "infinite energy" a necro really is.

To answer your other question, no, MM's have pretty much zero role in PvP. There aren't enough bodies to build an army. And, if you did, most foes are smart enough to ignore your minions and kill you. The only exception is AB, where bodies are plentiful and most foes aren't equipped to counter AotL + Dark Bond + Infuse Condition + Mystic regen, so you can become sort of an invincible distraction to the other team. (There's also an OoU variant that relies in part on the element of surprise, because everyone is expecting the other build, which lacks offensive punch.)

Sniper22 · Jun 17, 2008, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Ya don't forget the curses line. You can go defensively or offensively with that. Weaken armor, barbs, and even mark of pain if you use it correctly will really help out the damage.

The Meth · Jun 17, 2008, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper22

Ya don't forget the curses line. You can go defensively or offensively with that. Weaken armor, barbs, and even mark of pain if you use it correctly will really help out the damage.

Curses can WTFpwn enemies, but its usually much better to dedicate a curse necro for that. The great thing about Enfeebleing Blood is that it works fine even at a low curse spec. Of course, more barbs and mark of pain even at lower levels is pretty fun, just make sure you aren't casting redundant hexes. Put em in if you can take enough away from soul reaping to make em decent and have a few empty slots.

Kerwyn Nasilan · Jun 17, 2008, 12:50 AM // 00:50

/Rt or /Mo most basic MM builds dont stray much outside primary skills.